Shanté Paradigm Smalls August 2nd Post-Retreat Reflections

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Shanté Paradigm Smalls August 2nd Post-Retreat Reflections

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Ms. Smalls says of this video: "Before I went on retreat from July 22-25 and July 25-July 31 at Shambhala Mountain Center I said I would record my thoughts of my experience. Here is that video."

It is reposted here from the Shambhala Buddhism Subreddit to give it home where it will stay, and not be taken down, unless of course Prof. Smalls takes it off YouTube.

To comment on this video, go to Repost of Shanté Paradigm Smalls August 2nd Post-Retreat Reflections at American-Buddha.net
Admin
Posts: 122
Joined: Fri Mar 29, 2019 4:56 am

Re: Shanté Paradigm Smalls August 2nd Post-Retreat Reflections

Post by Admin »

Posted here below are what could be salvaged from the Sham Sub. I cannot image what Prof. Smalls found problematical about this thread. Some very tame spitwads thrown her way. But then, these pious types are always thin-skinned. The more they meditate, the thinner their skins get, until at last, they have no skin at all, and they burst, like an overripe tomato.
Prism_View
Shanté made some valid and interesting points, from my perspective. The whiteness and wealth in Shambhala was an issue for me while I participated, and if I had the heart to continue with the community, I would still want to address it.

But I also want to say to the questions of "who is here?" and "who matters?" that abuse survivors have been summarily cast aside. Not to get into what harm is worse because that discussion doesn't seem to ever help. Many people directly harmed in some way by Shambhala cannot even continue their spiritual practice. Personally, I can't be in a retreat or local center. I get physically ill.

Good luck to everyone.

Hugz
The more I digest this, the more disappointing it is. I'm not asking that those fighting for justice within Shambhala to make abuse survivors the one and only issue they advocate for, but I think it's really important that anyone wanting justice from, within, and/or through Shambhala include abuse survivors. Otherwise, those efforts are incomplete in terms of justice advocacy and complicit in terms of the abusive culture.

People in yoga, martial arts, and meditative traditions seem to have a pattern of fashioning themselves as teachers, way before their depth of understanding has matured. To me, Shanté is a case in point. Well-meaning, but still somewhat deluded.

NancySteinbeck

Shanté lost me at "Lady Diana". How can you claim to care about POC and fly the freak flag of a cult based on the British system of royalty and colonialism? Especially at this time in history. Unless Shanté really believes the hype about Diana coming from an aristocratic family, a fantasy that the Mukpos have never bothered to publicly deny , it is pure gaslight to praise anything related to sham's white privileged Kingdom on crack.

How can anyone think they'll get truth and reconciliation from a 50 year old org led by an inner circle of closeted, sneering white elitest snobs, who consider everyone else beneath them?

That ain't woke. That is self serving, shameless PR.

samsarry

She lost me at SMR is my root guru, dorje dradul,etc.

Lightbank81
well, she definitely did not leave the room better than she found it.

foresworn108

Was this video made in like 2009? Because that's the ONLY POSSIBLE way of interpreting this as a coherent response to a retreat. Yeah, this must be an old, old video because that's the only reasonable explanation for what are otherwise extraordinary feats of mental gymnastics. All performed under a banner that features the abuser's calligraphed "Ki" on it. Phenomenal execution! People were assaulted by the person who wielded that brush! But I guess that's okay because you are calling out . . . abuse? 🤔 And you feel fine with it because you don't claim SMR as your current teacher anymore - just as your "root guru"? Again: bravo. Deftly maneuvered.

I guess it's Olympics season! And this performance deserves a gold medal.

In all seriousness, my brain sort of short-circuited watching this. On one hand, I was extremely excited to hear someone still involved in the cult (involved enough to brave a pandemic and go on not one but two of its only recent live retreats) call out the deeply rooted anti-blackness and racism at the heart of Shambhala from a vantage point of an insider. Because coming from an insider (and Smalls IS an insider, no matter how delicately they distance themselves from being part of the organization), that critique can land in a way mine can't any more. And I think Smalls speaks for a lot of people who have experienced the violence of white supremacy upon entering a Shambhala container.

On the other hand, it was very jarring to listen to someone so steeped in the rhetoric and practice of decolonization seem absolutely UNBOTHERED by their own complicity in validating teachings that foster exploitation and abuse. Dr. Smalls's weird, uncomfortable evasions of the topic were not lost on THIS survivor. For instance: love the part where they shout-out their "friend" Adam Lobel—a man who did MUCH to normalize SMR's abusive regime—and his cute "Shampacalypse" phrase. Notably, Smalls does NOT explain what that "Shampacalyse" was.

I don't care how deftly and subtly one distances oneself in name from the community if they continue to promote its teachings. These things—the teachings and the community and its abusive, shitty teachers—are inseparable. These teachings CREATE abuse. They encourage it. They facilitate conditions that enable abusers and predators to thrive. I practiced all the way through Scorpion Seal (which, for the record, most certainly does not come from the Kalachakra Tantra) and can say, without confusion, that when you are doing the advanced practices, it is all 1000% about the Sakyong(s). The Profound volume [edited to add: this is the book one receives at SSA 2] literally has a chapter about Osel Mukpo's hot athletic bod in it. You cannot practice these teachings—particularly the advanced ones—and pretend like the Sakyong himself is immaterial to them. No. That's incoherent.

All three of Shambhala's gurus abused people, assaulted them, and ruined lives. Scores of its leaders are implicated and complicit - Lobel is chief among them. Literal children have been sexually abused in this cradle of loving kindness for a couple generations now. I'm not sure how many of us need to say it for it to be heard. This shit is BASICALLY BAD.

Honestly, I am unbothered if someone wants or needs to practice Werma or draw CTR's phallic calligraphies or whatever in the privacy of their own home or with some friends. Peace be unto them. I truly don't care. But what does bother me is that Smalls is clearly positioning themself as a public figure, a representative of a sort of Buddhist practice - an oasis of sorts for communities that do not traditionally have access to Buddhism, and in so doing is validating the Shambhala teachings. Their prestigious academic credentials go a long way toward this end as well. I assume they are making money from this scheme too. No. Sorry. That is at base: corrupt. If Shambhala is the basis on which they developed their Buddhist teaching credentials, then I can see why they are going to such lengths—performing such feats of gymnastics—to continue to try and squeeze water from this stone. But it is extremely . . . weird and ultimately corrupt.

I truly hope people hold them accountable for this, because sorry, they can't have it both ways. I'm in no position to do this, and it seems like Smalls is surrounded by yes-people, but I hope there are people in that orbit who can call that shit out for what it is.

Prism_View

Yes! They want it both ways: distancing from the icky parts of Sham, but keeping all the benefits of a captive/monetizable audience and "legitimacy" of a lineage (wtf is that lineage they reference, anyway?). Reminds me of Ethan. A self-serving position to take.


Bravo! Thanks for reminding us of her shout out to her friend Adam lobel . Wow. That was pretty telling. And her good friend ashoka, who has never said word one in support of survivors. All that was missing was a shout out to Lodro Rinzler and the dharma boner guy.


Emadatsi

Not in the Shambhala org? Shanté is still listed online as the Rusung (head Kasung) for New York City.

And still spouts court titles (Lady Diana, Dorje Dradül, etc.) Claims the Sakyong as her root guru. Uses jargon only ever heard in Shambhala. Weird...


foresworn108


That's what they say in the video. It is hard to swallow given how steeped in Shambhala all their rhetoric is. . . but that's their own claim!


[deleted]


AMEN!!!!

charicharu


Thank you so much for your courage to watch it!!!! And for your commentary! I cannot hear about ki’s, root gurus, ladies and stuff anymore….., so i could not watch the Video……

Shante expresses great appreciation for the shambhala "teachings", but why?

The atmosphere she left was steeped in shambhala "teachings", populated by many long term "practitioners", to what result? A group wracked by generations of abuse and exploitation. A group uniform in affluent entitled whiteness.

These "teachings" are placebo at best and often grooming towards being abused.

Her goals of a more healthy society would be unburdened if she stepped away from trungpa sourced "teachings".

Nyingje_Dorje

Ally
Like so many of her peers--Pema, Ethan, et. al-- Dr. Smalls derives her authority and identity as a spiritual teacher from the drunken, drug-addled hallucinations of CTR masquerading as "the teachings." Until Dr. Smalls and the others vocally and publicly stop trying to protect or rationalize the phony lineage of CTR, Tom Rich, and MJM and their warped, sexually and racially violent organization, they continue to be complicit.

(Edited to correct for Dr. Smalls’ pronouns)

frknrtsmrctrrtrrs

Shante expresses great appreciation for the shambhala "teachings", but why?

Shante likes werma practice and clearly identifies with a lot of Shambhala teachings in some form - uses the language anyway. But also said who their teachers were, and neither is a shambhala or vajradhatu person. One was Lama Rod. Possibly affluent and entitled but clearly not white. I don't get the sense that Shante has any problem with affluence or entitlement, although I could be completely mistaken in that. Shante has a problem with dominator culture, which is related but different.

Shante was explicit about the community aspect; their interest in practice community is mostly limited to people who know each other, and a specific group of mostly or entirely black people at that. The impression I have is that Shante doesn't see the teachings and community as one thing or even necessarily bound together, and would disagree utterly with the idea that the teachings are (solely) bogus grooming mechanisms.

GrayFruitcup

As long as they are getting what they want out of their association with mjm and sham I guess survivors who fall in the wake of their much loved Mukpo feudal dynasty are of no concern. Not their audience for this performance I guess.

Dear lord… https://boulderreiki.com/posts/medicine ... d-healing/

Sharing bcs the author wanted me to read their blog and comment there but I couldn’t even make it through. I honestly don’t give a shit about the label survivor (and would prefer it wasn’t used as shorthand or in first person so that the actual critique of behavior and impacts can actually come through for people to share in), and will critique.m Shambhala and all the mini gurus on public platforms looking for followers just the same. And they have followers. That’s kind of the point… and why they need to be criticized and not just taken at face value. Shanté isn’t just a random quiet practitioner doing stroke practice in private or on (stupid) retreats, they’re preaching publicly and have woven an abusive cult’s ideology it into their whole identity and platform on which they’re overlooking some key problems that have already been voiced.


[deleted]

edited 11d
The way I see all of this is that Shambhala has done such a cruddy job of relating to the sexual abuse, the abuse of power, the alcoholism, the Regent AIDS debacle, the traumas, the dramas that where the F@%CK else are we supposed to be able to talk about it and express our rage?

I understand that it looks like cyberbullying. I get that. But I think, at least for me, it's a forum of expression to say, HEY!!!! THIS WAS ALL NOT OK!!!! and although YOU DON"T WANT TO DEAL WITH IT, WE HAVE NO CHOICE! WE ARE MESSED UP BC of IT.

SO, yes, I'm sorry it looks like it's pointed at Dr. Shante Smalls, but take another look at what we're truly saying.

In Chinese, the word for anger is to SPRING UP. And that is what we are doing because Shambhala is repressed and a mess and distressed and dying. (One might argue, exactly mirroring the culture of colonialism).

Dr. Smalls could have been an ally and instead they are not. And no wonder that letter the administrators wrote is incomprehensible...

bologna-indeed
·
11d
Yea. And I guess the other thing I’d add is they are an “advanced” practitioner, a “leader”, and a “teacher” in the shambhala tradition. And we know how those people are treated in shambhala and how they can wield those creds outside of it. I.e. they represent it. It’s not like they’re a rogue lowly practitioner. And we all know once you’re that far down a path it’s your everything, it becomes how you view the world and your identity and you really don’t see other people as getting it if they aren’t in the shambhala way of life.

And I have always thought of shambhala as mimicking some colonial nation-state — interesting you mention that.


[deleted]

SO BEAUTIFULLY SAID. YES.

drunkenasshat

Ally
I really think Shante has some excellent points-and I agree-sham is way too white, classist, and elitist. But, wtf was that? Who is her audience? Shante should maybe explore the dissonance that must arise for them when they say MJM is their root guru, he gave them samaya and practices. And he is a misogynistic sexually abusive drunk. And I appreciated them defending Agnes but to me this was an incredibly disjointed discussion. I mean Agnes epitomizes classism and elitism. Granted, she’s of Asian descent, But she is first a wealthy American. I would like to know who Shante’s audience is-because it seemed to me that they were extremely hesitant to offer any type of genuine criticism of the organization. They did mention white supremacy but it was kind of couched in but that’s everywhere in America. They did mention the sunshine reports, once, without filling in any background information or bringing up the kusung letter, the wh investigation and the listening post, or the news articles which shine a light on abuse. They speak of the violence towards POC which I can only have empathy for and sympathize with greatly. But, come on now, what about the violence towards survivors and whistleblowers? That’s a real thing, and I felt like them skipping over all of that was a bit violent to us survivors. Silly me, why would I think anyone would discuss the scores of women (and men) sexually and emotionally harmed by this cult? I mean, if we really want to talk about sacred world, let’s talk about how some of us have been treated like garbage just for telling the truth. Wtf was that?

Somehow centering around survivors never seems to happen in Shambhala spaces. I think the dismissal of this subreddit was interesting too, given that it's populated by several survivors.

TharpaLodro

I agree. There's a lot of vagueness in this video and the fact that it's taken Shanté three years to come to this place is also significant.

I think what's happened is that Shambhala has that veneer of progressivism that's common among white American/Canadian organisations and is appealing to the kind of liberal who votes for Biden and rationalises it to themselves. Don't get me wrong - I'm a genderqueer anticolonial revolutionary communist, so I'm not disparaging the goals that Shanté has. But words that aren't substantiated by actions are hollow; veneers chip away. Shanté has clearly been largely on their own journey for the past several years and that is to be commended. But at a certain point you just have to give up on Shambhala. What does Shambhala offer that no other organisation does? If it's the Buddhism you like there is no shortage of lineages to follow. If it's the vague spirituality - same story. If it's the ostensible political potential - how long will it take before you realise it isn't there? At a certain point you have to own up to the fact that no organisation is perfect and you have to work with what you've got. So best to work with an org and a tradition that is salvageable rather than one which has been rotten since its inception.


Querulantissimus

But honestly, a ton of so called buddhists that I know have a classist and elitist attitude.

And not only against ethnically different people. When someone is psychologically set up to single out people who are somehow different to look down on them, then everyone who is "not of the in group" is up for discrimination.

For example I am as white as one can be, but have a mental illness, PTSD and I'm really open about it. That turned me into a victim of discrimination inside and out of the dharma.

I have experienced that less educated and intellectually gifted (but often more compassionate) sangha members were subtly discriminated against by the mostly highly educated people in relevant positions.

The proposition to discrimination is a fundamental mind set, therefor it seeks victims everywhere. If there is a "ruling group" of one type, being a different ethnic group is just one option of reason to be thrown under the bus. If you are not "like them" you are targeted.

This_Ad_5689

This
Smalls has a lot of sunk costs. They want to use Shame-bhala as a self promoting platform and have already invested a lot in it. So of course they are not going to denounce the basic BS or call out the fundamental lies and abuses.


Silver
Ki on the wall, posing with a mala around their neck, shrine pics, ink pot… um no thanks, but might as well tattoo a red flag on your face at this point. We really get it - we’ve been there - we see your cool spiritual flair and reasonable politics so rare in the sham. In fact only those of us who were once there know it so you really have a unique thing going for you in the non-sham world AND the sham one 👏. But we who have been there do know that advocating for racial, social and political justice in and through Shambhala is as idiotic and surface as advocating for a woke inclusive rainbowed up US of A. So who are you talking to? But go ahead, throw in some affirmative action, racial/gender/class bias workshops, a lil history of racism in shambhala and we’ll all be good. Might as well green the court, Gayner’s house, those princess handbags and ugly rented SUV’s while you’re at it - that’ll make shambhala ethical ⚖️

samsarry
·
12d
Agree!


cedaro0o
·
11d
From Dr. Small's public instagram:

onyxx100

Thank you, Shante- I’m curious about what the discussion and teaching was at this retreat on the trauma created in the Shambhala community due to the incredible amount of sexual abuse and other abuse by so many, and how that is being continually addressed as previous and current members of the sangha gather to explore creating something new together. I realize this event included Pema Chodron and others, who have a long history with the community, and I was curious what workshops and teachings were offered to specifically address the ongoing work around healing from trauma and the violent legacy left behind by Trugpa and Sakyong and others.

shanteparadigm

onyxx100 sadly, and actually, quite surprisingly, there was very little sad at the public talks, until I gave my talk on Sunday in which I called for a Truth and Reconciliation Commission. As well as introducing a practice which asks survivors and victims of violence for fear forgiveness for driving them out and not centering their healing, which is how you heal the community. I cannot speak to the content of all the workshops, but I do believe several of them talked about institutional patriarchy. I spoke with the retreat staff and teachers and they admitted this was a major oversight. Thank you for this question, it’s really damn important that survivors not be sidelined and communities center what is helpful and healing for them, and that perpetrators are held accountable and responsible.

I also get the sense that it is very difficult for some people to talk about CTR’s behavior in ways that isn’t only praiseworthy. Many people, however, spoke about the fact that you can both honor the amazing work that a person has done, while speaking directly to the ways this person hurt other people. A lot of this issues came up in the Q&A portion of each of the three talks.

https://www.instagram.com/p/CSKR9xKrm9A/

cedaro0o

I spoke with the retreat staff and teachers and they admitted this was a major oversight.

There is no way ignoring the elephant in the room of clerical sexual assaults and other exploitations from leadership was an "oversight". That was a cowardly self serving intentional omission.

If it truly was oversight, that's a disqualifying amount of negligence.

Either way is damning.

French_Fried_Taterz

That is the response of a grifter. She is in it for herself and the wealth and power that come along. Do not trust her.

Cali773
Oh I Have to chuckle. When I was a Center Director, I asked Richard Reoch for a truth and reconciliation commission to deal with the abusive past of Shambhala. That was 2005. lol hopeless

cedaro0o

Thank you for sharing now and thank you for trying back then. It helps to evidence just how intransigent senior entrenched shambhala practioners have been and still are

in-the-blue-108

As well as introducing a practice which asks survivors and victims of violence for fear forgiveness for driving them out and not centering their healing, which is how you heal the community.

How are the survivors supposed to know about this? What masturbatory b.s., once again (and again, and again). No thanks.

in-the-blue-108

PS: Maybe you all should start a 'working group' to look into who's responsible for the 'major oversight' and why, if something is so 'damn important,' the survivors are still 'sidelined' and the perpetrators are still not being held accountable. That should take another couple of years, ending up with another report which agrees to form more working groups. Shante, how can you not be nauseated by all of this? Where do you actually stand? Why are you continuing to support such a harmful (on so many levels) organization? How can you claim any right to speak for survivors when we have all been shamed, shunned, silenced? (I take that back - we continue to speak out, and other people are hearing us.)

in-the-blue-108

PPS: I just listened to your youtube talk (thank you) about the retreat, and you said that for you it's whether people walk the talk, which is how I feel, too. How do you reconcile that with the very extremely duplicitous behaviour of SMR and CTR?

bologna-indeed
·
11d
And of this group which can claim to be anti-Sakyong but has got the meaning of Mukpo and Sakyong concept all over it in every single way imaginable!

BoneStar85

it’s really damn important that survivors not be sidelined and communities center what is helpful and healing for them, and that perpetrators are held accountable and responsible.

Yes.

As well as introducing a practice which asks survivors and victims of violence for [their] forgiveness for driving them out and not centering their healing, which is how you heal the community.

No. So many things would have to happen first before that could ever be appropriate.

drunkenasshat
Rocket Like
Shante-This practice you speak of, did you mean the practice asks survivors and victims of violence for their forgiveness for driving them out and not centering their healing which is how you heal the community? No offense, But count me out. It’s been three years of this bullshit. You can’t have it both ways. For five decades, this community has minimized abuse, blamed and shunned and blackballed victims, and spiritually bypassed all of their needs. Please stop throwing bones to survivors and pretending like you care. If you cared, you would’ve spoken out against abuse and against the cult of sham long ago. But Foresworn is right-there is still time. Better late than never. We can support you as you come to terms with how deeply indoctrinated, gaslit, and used you have been. But not a single complicit person still in sham have earned my forgiveness. How does one have a truth and reconciliation commission without having any survivors be a part of it? Ouch-my brain hurts. And I might have a bit of whiplash. Just how exactly does one honor the “amazing” work of a dead narcissistic sociopath while holding them accountable for the harms they caused?

level 1
GrayFruitcup

Any mention of concern for survivors and shunned whistleblowers is notably missing here as is par the course for the Mukpo dynasty and it's offshoots. "Nothing to see here" could be the caption on this video and the new slogan for the Kingdom at large.

French_Fried_Taterz

To The Stars
This is ridiculous. Shambhala is bullshit and so is karma. Listening to someone trying to reconcile two different and equally deluded ideologies is an incredible waste of time.

Sad to see that almost everyone here regards being white as a pathology.

I am no longer the least bit concerned that Shambhala will ever gain any meaningful power.

This person talks about dralas (more bullshit) like she learned about them in a children's book and people care about her views on anything, why?

[deleted]

There does seem to be a real disconnect for me about calling out your truths but continuing to study Shambhala altogether. Never mind that it's a dying organization, with a very troubling past that does not discriminate when it comes to hurting people.

In some ways, I see Dr. Smalls as a cowboy on the frontier, in the wild wild west. They are the first of their kind.

Breaking new ground in Shambhala is very very difficult. It's been the way Dr. Smalls describes since inception: WHITE PEOPLE, MOSTLY JEWISH, SURROUNDING A TIBETAN GURU, AND THEN AFTER HE DIED, A TIBETAN FAMILY.

From a Tibetan's point of view, they the Mukpo's conquered and subdued the American hordes. They have won the war when they get the rich, white people to visualize them as Vajradhara and throw themselves on the ground 100,000 times to their image. Think about how victorious that must have felt for the Tibetans when they heard Trungpa Rinpoche had succeeded in quelling the Americans?

I don't mean it from an US and THEM pov, I mean, just think about it. In all the years CTR was alive, he was the ONLY PERSON OF COLOR IN THE ROOM. And then SMR, when he took his place. And when SMR married into a rich Tibetan family and they came and saw his community, they were overjoyed: RICH WHITE PEOPLE BOWING DOWN TO US. WHAT COULD BE BETTER?

It's all weird. Completely weird.

BORN A MONK,

DIED A KING.

He could not have said it better. Who made him a king? Rich white people. So what is Dr. Smalls fighting against? They are fighting against everything Trungpa Rinpoche put into place. Everything he stood for. Everything he did.

Also, Shambhala is not from Kalachakra. I know everyone thinks that, but it's inaccurate. Shambhala probably comes from Bon and has been greatly elaborated upon by the Mukpo clan.

This_Ad_5689

What’s your point in claiming Trungpas followers were “mostly Jewish” ?

Awkward_Jacket_6037

I'd guess that they mean it in the same way people claim Trungpas followers were mostly entitled white people --;it's just a fact that stands out.

This_Ad_5689

Being entitled white people contains qualitative information. Pointing out Jewish presence does not- unless you’re anti Semitic and hold stereotypes about Jews. So again I ask why claim this?

frknrtsmrctrrtrrs

In all the years CTR was alive, he was the ONLY PERSON OF COLOR IN THE ROOM.

That simply isn't accurate, although you could probably maintain your point by restating it in less absolute terms. For example both the teachers who left that recent Werma retreat were around in the CTR days and not caucasian.

[deleted]

ok, let's say that there were maybe five or six people of color besides CTR, but they were not always in the same room with him and therefore he was predominantly the only POC. I'm thinking of Michael Roudette, Gayland Ferguson, I'm not sure how many others...but not many.

level 2
Glass_Maintenance_80

Well yes and no. The rich white people (RWP) did (and do), in fact, win the gold in bowing and scraping. But in the end (and we are witnessing the end), RWP are also doggedly canceling Mipham. RWP always get the last word (and usually the first). The middle? That’s just entertainment.

Many_Advice_1021

carolineecouture

Smalls doesn't sound confused to me. I think it's worth watching the entire video as it provides a fuller context than just the last 15 minutes or so.

drunkenasshat

I watched the entire video.

Many_Advice_1021

Both the Shambhala and Buddhist teachings have been around for thousands of years. And have benefited millions over the years. Who are you? Do you have ant real experience or understanding of them


federvar

Christian teachings are very old too, and I kind of like them (forgiveness was a revolutionary and sweet idea after the old testament furious God power trip), but now even the Pope is disgusted at the sexual abuse in the Church.

We are people who mainly didn't agree with the way Shambhala (the institution) managed sexual and power abuse. I think there is plenty of people here that have "real experience" with Buddhism.

Who are you? Do you have anything to add to the discussion?

bologna-indeed

The Pope is not disgusted with sexual abuse that happened under his church. That’s quite an appalling thing to say as so many Indigenous communities are unearthing their missing children’s bodies in the grounds of residential schools and demanding actual justice while getting none, being fought for even asking for it. There are so many people living with the impacts of sexual abuse from Catholic Church - do you seriously believe they think the Pope is disgusted? What an off hand thing to say - I really hope you don’t mean/believe it. It’s more misleading than saying Mipham is even disgusted with sexual abuse in Shambhala.

federvar

I don't think the pope likes sexual abuse. I never said he is doing enogh to stop it, but he is more progressive than other popes. And maybe disgusted is not the right word -I'm not a native speaker, and "disgustado" is maybe a false friend.

Anyway, I just wanted to say that teachings and institutions are not the same. I can see the pope is not exactly the better way of making that specific point. Sorry if it offended you or triggered something.

Many_Advice_1021

I don’t know? I think Shambhala and the church is a microcosm of the real world. Expecting them to be different is confused thinking. Buddhism/Shambhala give you a path to deal with your own pain and confusion. You are free to take it or leave. Either you get something out of it or you don’t but it isn’t going to save the world. The real world is samsara

federvar

but in the real world there is justice. You don't have to "take it or leave". Even in religion institutions: take for example the stance that some christian priests had in political conflicts, as the liberation theology did in latin america in the seventies and eighties. Take Martin Luther King, or Thich Nhant Hanh. Social change is possible. Calling cults cults is possible. You can be Buddhist and do what you can not to take part in a cult that profit from people.


Many_Advice_1021

Real world Justice ??? Some cultures try but in the end. I’m not sure.

Prism_View

Ally
Both the Shambhala and Buddhist teachings have been around for thousands of years

The Shambhala teachings are not even close to thousands of years old. Just a flash in the Buddhist-inspired cult pan. If you mean the Kalachakra, well, just know that Shambhala has basically nothing in common with it.

Many_Advice_1021

Ok only 1000 year. And yes those teachings have been around in the indigenous culture of Tibet for an age. Trungpa borrowed most of it and brought it up to date. It was also particular to Surmang where he was Abbott.

[deleted]

A survivor of Shambhala. That's who I am. And I'm done with the bs. and Yes, I studied with CTR. and in case pins are important to you, i have all the dumb pins. ALL. OF. THE. DUMB. PINS. Do some reading on the history of Shambhala. You might be surprised. Talk to an actual TIBETAN PERSON. You might be surprised that you've been learning and circulating misconceptions, as I was.

drunkenasshat

Yeah, I don’t know if I’d brag about sitting at Penor’s feet to receive teaching. But if you want to place great value in the man who recognized Steven Seagal and MJM as tulkus, for a price, so be it.

The Kalachakra, according to Jigme Phuntsok Rinpoche, is basically the Buddhist version of the description of the common theme of apocalypse. I was at his feet at SMC when he taught this. So if you are relating the KOS transmission to the Kalachakra, yes, it's a supplement to the apocalypse teachings. But Shambhala itself has nothing to do with the Kalachakra. It is in response to the Kalachakra. And anyway, SMR has so completely destroyed Shambhala that it is now a dying organization, nowhere near a stage of preparedness to deal with a f'ing apocalypse. It's having its own apocalypse. Yes. I could be wrong about all of this. I fully admit to that. But when I speak to Tibetans, men and women who walked out of Tibet, not Tibetans born in India or in other countries, I have had to readjust my understanding of Shambhala altogether. It's a cult.

foresworn108

KOS transmission is a "supplement to the apocalypse teachings"? That's new! So: move to Nova Scotia, take over the government, secede or whatever, and . . . that's a supplement to the Kalachakra Tantra? Not in my understanding.

[Edit: "KOS transmission" is when they reveal to you that "the Kingdom of Shambhala" Trungpa had in mind is not a metaphor. It means literally moving to Nova Scotia (which a lot of 'em did) and setting up shop there; taking over the province and disconnecting it from Canada. Using military force if necessary - aka the Dorje Kasung. Trungpa's vision is very literal. That's the teaching. Everyone who receives the flag pin—with the stripes AND the sun—has learned this. Trungpa believed this would be possible because Canadians are flaccid and passive or something to that effect.]

Prism_View

The KOS transmission's "relationship" to the Kalachakra 100% sounds like a cult justifying its craziness.

A thousand year old cult

Just one of many "end of times" cults.

Many_Advice_1021

Freedom you get to believe anything you want in this world


[deleted]

My understanding was that KOS transmission was in response to a prophecy of a coming apocalypse, which is very clearly stated within the Kalachakra. CTR said there would be blood in the streets in America, it was time to get out. What is strange to me about your post is that you basically support what I said...LOL.

foresworn108

I did not know this context! Interesting. Thanks for clarifying. Sorry if I came off as hostile. 😬

I'm going into the weeds here...but:

Suchandra (Tib. Dawa Sangpo) c. 900 to 876 BC. Note: the Kalachakra calculations put the life of Shakyamuni Buddha quite a bit earlier than is generally accepted, and the Tibetans produced a number of divergent calculations of the dates given here. Also, many of the names of the kings are often wrongly Sanskritized (back-translated from the Tibetan) in Western publications.

The Kalki have often been erroneously termed "Kulika" by Tibetan Buddhist scholars unfamiliar with the original Sanskrit texts, as Buddhist scholar John R. Newman explains:

.. . so far no one seems to have examined the Sanskrit Kalachakra texts. The Buddhist myth of the Kalkis of Shambhala derives from the Hindu Kalki of Shambhala myths contained in the Mahabharata and the Puranas.

http://tibetanbuddhistencyclopedia.com/ ... _Shambhala

~~~~I'm not saying this is all accurate and is the truth, but what I am saying is there seems to be little evidence that Shambhala, Rigden, Sakyong, came from the Buddha himself. and therefore the Kalachakra.

Many_Advice_1021

Hahaha surly you have a good imagination
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